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Reserve Pension- Merged

dapaterson

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The challenge that you run into is that we tend to conflate pensionable service with pension benefits - "Thirty Five years of pensionable service will get you seventy percent in retirement".  That is incorrect.

Under all three acts (RCMP, PS and CAF (part I plan)) the thirty five year limit is on the timeframe during which you may accumulate benefits, which are pro-rated for times of part-time service.  If you are part-time in any of those, your maximum benefit decreases from the 70% maximum.  So, if you want to count I.1 against another plan, be warned: You'd be reducing the maximum benefit you could receive under that plan.


Let's look at Brihard - the equivalent of 6 years, 3 months of paid service in the CAF in, let's guess, a 12 year military career.  Now in the RCMP.

In the RCMP, he will be able to accumulate 35 years of paid, pensionable service and collect a 70% pension (reduced at age 65 due to combination with CPP, as all the plans are). Plus, he'll receive an additional pension, based on military service, under part I.1.

Were he able to transfer over his military time: His maximum in the RCMP would go from 35 years and 70% to 23 years pensionable, since the 12 years of being a CAF member all count as pensionable service.  The 12 years of being a CAF member would count as 12 years of pensionable service - even though he only worked about half of it and would receive credit for only the times he was paid.  So, add the 6 years 3 months of paid CAF service which is 12 years of pensionable service to the 23 years in the RCMP - pension is now maxed out at 35 years of pensionable service, but benefit tops out at 23 + 6 1/4 years of paid service = 58.5% of RCMP max pay.

As constructed the CFSA part I.1 does not count against that 35 year limit - you are able to build benefits beyond the normal 35 year limit in the RCMP or Public service, plus part I.1 in the Res F above and beyond that.  Essentially, part I.1 lets reservists in the two main non-military federal public sector pension plans exceed the 35 year limit on benefits.


All that said, communication on "You're in more than one plan at a time - here's what it means / how to manage it" has been a bit of a trainwreck.  As someone caught in the CFSA part I plus PSSA trap (and now released, and doing a surrender of CFSA part I to PSSA, except for periods of overlapping service which will be paid out as a transfer value because I released before 50 and can elect that, but it's still unclear what happens with class A time within the period that I am surrendering, to recapture some pensionable time to hit a maximum of 60% in the end state) I well understand the frustrations.

Making things worse is the Army's very cavalier attitude towards Reserve personnel administration and releases - "We'll get to it when we get to it" is a polite way of describing it.
 

brihard

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What burns my ass a bit is the inability so simply say 'You already did 6 years, 3 months full time service equivalent. We will count it as that. You can add that to your new federal pension, and you can do the remaining 28 years 9 months to hit your 35'. It seems needlessly complex, and it fails to incentivize reservists seeking other full time federal employment.

At the end of the day I'm probably going to just pop smoke on the CFSA, take my commuted value and fill up LIRA/RRSP and let it sit for the next 30 years. But it's annoying that the years themselves don't end up doing anything. If this were later to be remedied I'd look at buying back the years. But I won't subject myself to what you just described, it would be essentially punishing me for transferring pension value.
 

dapaterson

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Brihard said:
What burns my ass a bit is the inability so simply say 'You already did 6 years, 3 months full time service equivalent. We will count it as that. You can add that to your new federal pension, and you can do the remaining 28 years 9 months to hit your 35'. It seems needlessly complex, and it fails to incentivize reservists seeking other full time federal employment.

None of the acts as written provide for only counting paid time.  All say "The day you start, your 35 year clock starts ticking, whether you work one day or 12,784 days in that window makes no difference".  And a group within the RCMP attempted a court challenge on that (tied to part-time work, primarily post-maternity) and lost.

Brihard said:
At the end of the day I'm probably going to just pop smoke on the CFSA, take my commuted value and fill up LIRA/RRSP and let it sit for the next 30 years. But it's annoying that the years themselves don't end up doing anything. If this were later to be remedied I'd look at buying back the years. But I won't subject myself to what you just described, it would be essentially punishing me for transferring pension value.

You may (and I stress may) be able to elect periods of 6 months+ full time with the CAF (like an overseas deployment) and get the 1 for 1 time credit; but I think there's a time limit to elect that (like within a year of becoming a member of the Force, but I am not too familiar with the RCMPSA).

I will note that if you do not elect to take the transfer value within a year of your retirement date, you lose any future opportunity to do so.
 

daftandbarmy

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(Sends up a flare)

Has anyone got a link to the 'Enrolment Information and Acknowledgement of Plan Membership' form for Reservists?

My attempts to navigate the PWGSC website are leading to thoughts of self-harming....

Thank you! :)
 

Rifleman62

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I am going to contact the law firm with some related things they should be looking at.

https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/about-vac/news-media/alerts/notice-certification

Notice of Certification: Jost v. Her Majesty the Queen

Court File No. T-972-17


The Federal Court has certified a class proceeding involving delayed payment of certain Canadian Forces Superannuation Act pension benefits between 2007 and 2017. If you served in the Canadian Armed Forces ("CAF"), with at least some of that service in the Reserve Force, and released from the CAF between 2007 and 2017, you may be a member of the Class. If the class proceeding succeeds at trial, or is settled, you may be entitled to a payment.

What is the class action about?

The class proceeding seeks damages for delay in paying pension benefits to some CAF members who served in the Reserve Force – regardless of whether they were members of the Reserve Force Pension Plan or the Regular Force Pension Plan.

Who are the class members?

The Federal Court has defined the Class as all individuals who:

served in the Canadian Armed Forces – Reserve Force;

released from the Canadian Armed Forces between March 1, 2007 and October 31, 2017;

were entitled to receive an Immediate Annuity, Transfer Value, Annual Allowance and/or Bridge Benefit under the Regular Force Pension Plan or the Reserve Force Pension Plan; and

did not receive payment of the Immediate Annuity, Transfer Value, Annual Allowance and/or Bridge Benefit for more than 60 days from the date of release. The CAF member who acts as representative plaintiff on behalf of the Class is Douglas Jost.

What do I need to do to take part?

All class members have the right to participate in the class proceeding. You are automatically included in the proceeding and bound by the results unless you opt-out. If you do not opt-out, you will be eligible to receive a payment from a settlement or judgment in favour of the Class. You do not need to do anything if you wish to participate. If you wish to opt-out, you must sign and deliver an Opt-Out Coupon available from the lawyers listed below. If you wish to opt-out, you must send a signed Opt-Out Coupon to the lawyers listed below by no later than August 14, 2021. If you opt-out, you will not be eligible to receive any payment from a settlement or judgment in favour of the Class.

Who are the lawyers for the class?

The lawyers for the Class ("Class Counsel") are Koskie Minsky LLP (Toronto). You can obtain more information about the class proceeding at the website created by Class Counsel: Canadian Forces Delayed Pension Class Action (See Below)

Do I need to pay anything?

You do not need to pay any legal fees. If the case is unsuccessful, there will be no legal fees. If the case succeeds, whether at trial or by settlement, the Federal Court must approve Class Counsel's fees and any settlement of the class proceeding.



Canadian Forces Delayed Pension Class Action | Koskie Minsky LLP

(See link for additional Info.

Canadian Forces Delayed Pension Class Action

This class action concerns delays in the processing of immediate pension entitlements owed to veterans who are discharged from the Canadian Armed Forces. The class action is against the Attorney General of Canada and alleges, among other things, that Canada has engaged in chronic, excessive and unreasonable delay in the payment of pensions to discharged members of the Canadian Armed Forces. It is alleged that through mismanagement, Canada has forced discharged members of the Canadian Armed Forces to wait weeks, months and in some instances years, before receiving their pension payments.

The statement of claim, issued on June 30, 2017, was commenced on behalf of all members of the Canadian Forces – Reserve Force Pension Plan and the Canadian Forces – Regular Force Pension Plan who were entitled upon release to an Immediate Annuity, Transfer Value, Annual Allowance or Bridge Benefit between March 1, 2007 and the present.

For more information please call at 1-800-513-6344 or email at cafpensions@kmlaw.ca
 
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