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Replacing the Subs

CBH99

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Here's some open source on TDES. Sikorsky CH-148 Cyclone

Not quite as simple as unplug/plug. There's a whole gamble of airworthiness/testing processes that have to be completed, after determining, sourcing and procuring the hardware and software. It is a fairly substantial level of effort.
Absolutely makes sense.

In the context of Link 16 over Link 11, since Link 16 is so common now and installed on so many platforms, would that same level of testing have been required to install it aboard our MPA?
 

Dana381

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To add onto @Eye In The Sky 's comments, that pretty much goes with any aircraft equipment.

Part of the reason why bolts (similar to, but not the same as, ones you can get at Canadian Tire) are so expensive for aircraft. Those bolts, or at least that line of bolts, has to pass airworthiness standards. Same with heating coffee cups.

The bolts may be different or they may well be exactly the same, the majority of the cost in aerospace parts is the paper work. Every nut, bolt washer, etc. is traceable right back to the ingot it was stamped from. Every person who touches it has to log it. My late uncle worked at Vector Aerospace for years. He explained that when he received a part no matter how small it came with a stack of paper work a couple inches thick.

A plane once crashed that had one of their engines in it. If the engine was at fault the whole plant would have been shut down till the cause was found and the problem rectified. It turned out to be the propeller that was at fault.
 

Colin Parkinson

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My friend works at MTU in Vancouver where they rebuild jet engines. If an employee tells the manger they goofed and did not follow the repair process, they are not punished, but the engine is stripped back down and redone. if they lie or do not admit to a known goof, they are fired on the spot. They have the same process you describe for all the parts. I don't think most people realize how much goes into keeping a commercial aircraft flying. One of the problems for companies like Buffalo Air, is that the parts they can source do not have known histories, but often there are no other sources.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Eye In The Sky

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Absolutely makes sense.

In the context of Link 16 over Link 11, since Link 16 is so common now and installed on so many platforms, would that same level of testing have been required to install it aboard our MPA?

Yes; ground and airborne testing. Link 16 is part of the ongoing Aurora Block 4 upgrades.
 

Eye In The Sky

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I think the French are on a PR offensive.


Nice article, tks for that.
 

suffolkowner

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I think the French are on a PR offensive.

Good article, you can also see the issue to Australianize it as the article states everything is French derived, however if they want a true PR victory they should just deliver 6 to the RCN. CAFRA or FRACA?
 

Oldgateboatdriver

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Since both France and Canada has French speakers, I would use FRACA, as it sounds just like the French word "fracas", meaning a loud noise of something breaking (in English, I suppose it would be "clatter"). And such a sale would make a lot of noise in the international defense community.
 

MilEME09

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Good article, you can also see the issue to Australianize it as the article states everything is French derived, however if they want a true PR victory they should just deliver 6 to the RCN. CAFRA or FRACA?
You would think we would have a closer relationship with France, at the same time the Eryx wasn't the greatest..... we almost got the mistral Egypt now owns, according to Jason Kenny that fell through due to bureaucrats thinking it would undermine the NSPS.

If France was interested in building us some subs, I say we should take it
 

Happy Guy

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Definitely a possibility, I wonder how possible it would be to adapt the current torpedo tubes to fire the Mk 48? Almost the same dimensions, same fuel/propulsion


I'm certainly not an expert in naval armaments or an engineer, but I would be concerned about adapting these established classes to use the same torpedoes, other weapons and combat systems as the RCN now uses. This is based on my observation based on how long it took for us to get the Victoria Class submarines operational (the long term storage issues notwithstanding). The oldest Sōryū-Class submarine is already 14 years old (based on launched date) and I know that, if we buy these used subs, we will need to extensively outfit/modify to our needs. The question still remains how much service life will we get out of these submarines? Perhaps the RCN aside from the initial outfitting, will get one mid life upgrade out of this Class before it gets old and modifications are no longer worthwhile. If we bought brand new, perhaps we can get two or three major upgrades/modifications out of the life the submarine. I am not capable of doing a cost benefit analysis, but to me, while the initial outlay will be expensive, it would be less expensive to buy brand new and we would get what we want without having to perform extensive modifications.
 

Stoker

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I'm certainly not an expert in naval armaments or an engineer, but I would be concerned about adapting these established classes to use the same torpedoes, other weapons and combat systems as the RCN now uses. This is based on my observation based on how long it took for us to get the Victoria Class submarines operational (the long term storage issues notwithstanding). The oldest Sōryū-Class submarine is already 14 years old (based on launched date) and I know that, if we buy these used subs, we will need to extensively outfit/modify to our needs. The question still remains how much service life will we get out of these submarines? Perhaps the RCN aside from the initial outfitting, will get one mid life upgrade out of this Class before it gets old and modifications are no longer worthwhile. If we bought brand new, perhaps we can get two or three major upgrades/modifications out of the life the submarine. I am not capable of doing a cost benefit analysis, but to me, while the initial outlay will be expensive, it would be less expensive to buy brand new and we would get what we want without having to perform extensive modifications.
I think I can speak on behalf of the RCN in saying we will never buy used submarines again.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Until we do, I will never say never. We might not have a choice if the Victoria class can't sail because we have dithered for far to long.
 

Stoker

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Until we do, I will never say never. We might not have a choice if the Victoria class can't sail because we have dithered for far to long.
Very easy for you to say that. At the last meeting I was at the person who actually has a lot of say about such things was very adamant that we won't. The last purchase we made prior was based on submarines that just several years old, from a close ally that we bought submarines from them before. There is no purchase out there like that currently.
 

Colin Parkinson

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Yes it is easy to say that, because I have seen a change in governments or circumstances that have upended a lot of work to satisfy the politics of the day. Your looking at around 3 changes in government before a real decision is made. I fully admit that I am very cynical in this regard. I would love new, fit for our purpose subs purchased in a timely manner and at least 6 of them. Despite our Allies all being busy renewing their sub fleets, I am not holding my breath.
 

Retired AF Guy

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You would think we would have a closer relationship with France, at the same time the Eryx wasn't the greatest..... we almost got the mistral Egypt now owns, according to Jason Kenny that fell through due to bureaucrats thinking it would undermine the NSPS.

If France was interested in building us some subs, I say we should take it
Not sure if anyone has reported on this before but it was reported a couple of weeks ago that Macron wants a face-to-face meeting with PM Trudeau. Anybody want to bet that submarines doesn't enter the conversation?
 

Colin Parkinson

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So has a French nuke sub been recorded punching through the ice yet? I wonder if they are capable of that?
 

quadrapiper

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So has a French nuke sub been recorded punching through the ice yet? I wonder if they are capable of that?
Idiot-level question for the subsurface world: for a nuclear boat, how useful is punching through ice, other than for missile launching and photo ops? Assume there's a desire to be able to reach fresh air soonest in case of emergency, too.
 

MilEME09

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Depends, how far in the program was France? Are they trying to offload hulls at this point?
 

Colin Parkinson

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Likely want to repurpose domestic job promises and to maintain their rep so it does not impact the ongoing sales of the Scorpène class subs.
 
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