• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Mandatory Vaccination by November 15

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
2,093
Points
990
I thought a 5f can be disadvantageous for future federal employment? Was I wrong on that?
 

MJP

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
379
Points
980
Damn you're right.



Technically yes. When you punch in 5f release in google the second hit you get off Reddit says "5f is normally issued when you became an administrative burden for the CAF while 2a is issued for wrongful behavior or innapropriate conduct."

Other similar negative associations with 5f releases, might be enough for an employer to look elsewhere (not sure release items would really come up though)
Exactly it would only come up if the mbr themselves brought it up.

I thought a 5f can be disadvantageous for future federal employment? Was I wrong on that?
Yup, it is a common myth that it precludes further federal or federally regulated employment for 99.9% of the jobs out there. There may be jobs out there that have the ability to delve deeper into a mbr's past and ascertain their release item and what it means but it would be rare (and unlikely that the mbr would be pursuing those types of jobs anyway). I only include it because I am not sure myself the depth of background checks for certain jobs. I know for a fact that several people that have been 5F'd over the years work for federal depts including the RCMP or other sensitive posns within the LEO world
 

McG

Army.ca Legend
Reaction score
295
Points
880
Maybe our health information is private and they have no right to it?
If privacy were the concern, would we not be better using medical files as or system of record for this? They are much better secured from a privacy perspective than uploading the information on MonitorMASS for every clown to read.
 

SupersonicMax

Army.ca Veteran
Mentor
Reaction score
584
Points
910
If privacy were the concern, would we not be better using medical files as or system of record for this? They are much better secured from a privacy perspective than uploading the information on MonitorMASS for every clown to read.
Agreed however I am sure the argument is that your declaration in MM will be voluntary whereas using med records is not…
 

kev994

Sr. Member
Subscriber
Reaction score
146
Points
610
So we pinky-swear in MM and they’re going to audit but not look at med files? Seems suspicious. If the units hadn’t booked all the appointments and didn’t already know the answers it seems like abuse might be tempting.
 

Remius

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
972
Points
860
We sometimes get contacted by LEO orgs about people that have served that apply to be police officers. A 5F can be an issue sometimes. It isn’t so much the 5F. It’s the “why”. Never seen the issue with PS jobs though but I suspect that some that require more digging into your past could have this come up.
 

MJP

Army.ca Veteran
Reaction score
379
Points
980
So we pinky-swear in MM and they’re going to audit but not look at med files? Seems suspicious. If the units hadn’t booked all the appointments and didn’t already know the answers it seems like abuse might be tempting.
I released early in the vaccination process but Health Svcs was pretty adamant about not releasing individual information to CoC so I would be surprised if they turned around and starting naming names. In my neck of the woods they even put out a base wide email saying that no one was entitled to an individual's medical information and units needed to stop asking.

I have no doubt the MM "attestation" is essentially same as the one I just did for the federal PS. Any federal employee can "attest" to being vaccinated but there is at this time no way to verify that attestation. The only real difference I guess is I won't DAG yellow/red *down the road and called to account for a potentially fraudulent attestation

* I am double vaxxed, just see the weakness in the system
 

SupersonicMax

Army.ca Veteran
Mentor
Reaction score
584
Points
910
So we pinky-swear in MM and they’re going to audit but not look at med files? Seems suspicious. If the units hadn’t booked all the appointments and didn’t already know the answers it seems like abuse might be tempting.
When the PM announced the policy, he did say it was a honour system, with consequences for people lying…. How enforceable the system will be is questionable…. We have provincial vaccination passports, and soon-ish a federal one. I wouldn’t be surprised the government will require the use of that passport as the proof of vaccination…
 

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
2,093
Points
990
Trust now, verify later. This isn’t rocket surgery. CAF is already set up to track medical data points. Relatively speaking this is child’s play.
 

Zoomie

Army.ca Veteran
Mentor
Reaction score
92
Points
530
Access to The messes will be interesting…
How so? Mess activities are considered non-essential and thus require double vaccination proof. Mess exec ask members for their passports or CAF vax cards - pretty simple. If you don’t want to show proof - you don’t attend mess activities.
 

Zoomie

Army.ca Veteran
Mentor
Reaction score
92
Points
530
Equally troubling in this thread is those people who are stating they don’t have MM access or it doesn’t work for them. I heavily recommend you get that figured out ASAP, PaCE is here and everyone should have filled out their JD and MAP already. Less than a week until your first debrief session.
 

Remius

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
972
Points
860
How so? Mess activities are considered non-essential and thus require double vaccination proof. Mess exec ask members for their passports or CAF vax cards - pretty simple. If you don’t want to show proof - you don’t attend mess activities.
That wasn’t my point. Messes will require proof of vaccination. Actual work locations will not. In some situations it won’t be hard to figure out who might not be vaccinated.
 

Remius

Army.ca Fixture
Reaction score
972
Points
860
Equally troubling in this thread is those people who are stating they don’t have MM access or it doesn’t work for them. I heavily recommend you get that figured out ASAP, PaCE is here and everyone should have filled out their JD and MAP already. Less than a week until your first debrief session.
You clearly have never worked in a PRes unit.
 

hattrick72

Member
Reaction score
46
Points
380
Equally troubling in this thread is those people who are stating they don’t have MM access or it doesn’t work for them. I heavily recommend you get that figured out ASAP, PaCE is here and everyone should have filled out their JD and MAP already. Less than a week until your first debrief session.
ATL/BTL don't participate in PDR or PER process, unless this has changed under PACE?
 

hattrick72

Member
Reaction score
46
Points
380
That wasn’t my point. Messes will require proof of vaccination. Actual work locations will not. In some situations it won’t be hard to figure out who might not be vaccinated.
I'm fully vaccinated and my wife is fully vaccinated, we are not getting our passports for anything on the civilian side. Any activity that requires one we will not partake in. The biggest reason for this is our kids will not be getting the vaccine until 2027 at the earliest. Once this is approved for kids, we will lose access to all those services anyways.

However, I will fill out the attestation and when it is time to fly for work purposes, I will have my "passport" ready for that. Mess dinners will probably be similar, unless the attestation is good enough for attendance.

So, who is at the mess and gym may not be the best indicator of who doesn't have it for sure.
 

PuckChaser

Moderator
Staff member
Directing Staff
Mentor
Reaction score
645
Points
1,060
That wasn’t my point. Messes will require proof of vaccination. Actual work locations will not. In some situations it won’t be hard to figure out who might not be vaccinated.
DND considers the messes and gyms as part of the workplace for harassment policy purposes, ergo they cannot ask for vaccine status. Only people that get asked are non-DND civilian associates.
 

brihard

Army.ca Fixture
Mentor
Reaction score
2,093
Points
990
You clearly have never worked in a PRes unit.
No kidding. Outside of BOR/ HQ offices, my unit had three computers for the rifle company. Nobody below section 2ic would have any reason to go on one or even have a DWAN account.
 

Kilted

Sr. Member
Reaction score
232
Points
560
If privacy were the concern, would we not be better using medical files as or system of record for this? They are much better secured from a privacy perspective than uploading the information on MonitorMASS for every clown to read.
And it's not like everyone in the unit will find out anyways. I've never had anything medical actually kept confidential. Between having to explain an injury to everyone of a higher rank who I came in contact with and everyone else who happened to be standing there at the time, there is no way to keep it secret. Which isn't surprising considering the amount of information about other people. Considering the fact that people are still accused of faking injuries and have to justify their medical limitations to every Tom, Dick, and Harry I don't think that keeping something like a vaccination confidential is a realistic expectation.
 
Top