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FORCE 2025: Informing the Army’s future structure

KevinB

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NATO has already said what it wants from us, CAF has turned around and said okay, but we wanna have everything else too! thus is why we are moving towards a light, medium and heavy brigade when only one of those three has been requested by NATO. We canèt do everything but some capabilities need to have some assets, AD? low level sure, patriot batteries? no, NATO wants to turn us into a break through Force, a knife. the CAF wants to be the swiss army knife with half the tools are broken.
Perhaps because Canadian doesn't have a Heavy Bde - and hasn't since 4CMBG (which was getting old at that point and no longer a modern heavy Bde).
All the Heavy CDN Bde is there for is sharing casualties - not a knife but an anvil (at best)

Most countries built the force they want - and they tell NATO - hey, we can give you XYZ what do you want to do with it.
Canada for whatever reason seem to like to half ass things on both ends.
 
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Good2Golf

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Since DND the GoC makes no profit, there is nothing to measure performance against that would demonstrate if the bureaucracy is delivering value for money. DND Every GoC Department puts together numerous performance measurement systems but if the people in the system were honest with each other they would soon admit that every one of the many dashboards displayed is meaningless as to true performance.
FJAG, not intended as a “what about” defence, but I am certain you would consider the above changes to be valid. DND is not uniquely Byzantine as a department within Canadian federal government. I’d argue that the issue isn’t even limited to the federal level. It is a construct that has mutated the Westminster parliamentary model and associated mechanisms of government over decades and decades. Canadian government makes Sir Humphrey and his colleagues look like amateurs.

The Leslie Report wasn’t the tome of great wisdom from a succedent of Canada’s legacy of warfare transformers that many think it is. It was a test by an aspirant politician to see if the system that spawned a major department of government as it had, was resistant enough to change that one might be able to survive in the brave new world once the chrysalis of familial service to state was broken and the newly-winged transformative creature flourished…albeit for a period far shorter than intended…
 

FJAG

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FJAG, not intended as a “what about” defence, but I am certain you would consider the above changes to be valid. DND is not uniquely Byzantine as a department within Canadian federal government. I’d argue that the issue isn’t even limited to the federal level. It is a construct that has mutated the Westminster parliamentary model and associated mechanisms of government over decades and decades. Canadian government makes Sir Humphrey and his colleagues look like amateurs.

The Leslie Report wasn’t the tome of great wisdom from a succedent of Canada’s legacy of warfare transformers that many think it is. It was a test by an aspirant politician to see if the system that spawned a major department of government as it had, was resistant enough to change that one might be able to survive in the brave new world once the chrysalis of familial service to state was broken and the newly-winged transformative creature flourished…albeit for a period far shorter than intended…

I agree entirely with the first paragraph and it would be lovely to see reform across the entire government bureaucracy but I tend to focus on more manageable chunks and I honestly think DND needs to fix itself internally and strive for the most affordable structure it can be. And yes, I do realize that when I say "manageable" I'm being highly optimistic. On the other hand, unlike other government departments we have a profession that truly has a higher calling in the matter of defence of the nation. Every fibre of our being should be directed to converting every nickel that the government allocates to improving our defence capabilities and defence outputs. I may have a skewed view because I've been outside of the process for over a decade now and don't know the details of what is happening but the view I do have is that we are falling well short of our mark. I must admit that the Navy seems the most visionary at the moment with the CSC although I get frustrated every time I see another Navy hull slip into the water with minimal weapon systems; the air force may have some excuse with respect to the government's foot dragging on the new fighter but its decade and a half long lack of major progress on UAVs is disturbing; and the Army ... well, I've said enough in the past about my distain for how it is equipped and postured - it's abysmal.

I'm of mixed minds on Leslie's Report. I can see where your skepticism is coming from although I think at the time he was given a job to do and did it well within the constraints imposed on him. I do accept its statistical analysis and I do accept that it is yet another in a long line of failed attempts to reform the central core of the defence bureaucracy because the bureaucracy doesn't want to be reformed.

There are hundreds of excellent articles on what conditions need to be present and what actions need to be taken to successfully accomplish any major business transformation. Very few of those were made available to Leslie. Chief amongst them is an empowered leader to champion the process. We have had no minister or CDS in the last few decades (and I include Hillier in that who had an initial credibility but quickly squandered his political capital) who has enough energy or dedication to take on the task of breaking down the bureaucracy. Some took on smaller goals but as I've said repeatedly: you can't fine tune a system that is patently broken - radical action is needed.

🍻
 

Kirkhill

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Just thinking about the current stramash that is BC.

Has anybody given any thought to the business of getting rail traffic from Wainwright to Vancouver under the current circumstances? It looks like it will be the end of the month before the engineers have completed their recce on Highways 1, 2 and 5. And Highway 1 was already under a multi-month diversion at Golden.

I can't think that the LAVs will make much better progress over those washouts.

Too bad there isn't a logistics vehicle depot in the Vancouver area that troops could fly in to and fall in on the vehicles. Heck. You might even be able to find a bit of waterfront to park a floating depot.
 

MilEME09

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Just thinking about the current stramash that is BC.

Has anybody given any thought to the business of getting rail traffic from Wainwright to Vancouver under the current circumstances? It looks like it will be the end of the month before the engineers have completed their recce on Highways 1, 2 and 5. And Highway 1 was already under a multi-month diversion at Golden.

I can't think that the LAVs will make much better progress over those washouts.

Too bad there isn't a logistics vehicle depot in the Vancouver area that troops could fly in to and fall in on the vehicles. Heck. You might even be able to find a bit of waterfront to park a floating depot.
Would you want a depot in Vancouver that could be taken out by a tsunami?
 

KevinB

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Or build it underground on the east side of the island
That would be my solution - afloat causes it's own issues due to Salt water and the fact you would need a lot of various supply ships for that task, that while they would be a great assets - would drive a lot of costs.
 

MilEME09

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That would be my solution - afloat causes it's own issues due to Salt water and the fact you would need a lot of various supply ships for that task, that while they would be a great assets - would drive a lot of costs.
Agrees, underground you can climate control to allow for minimal wear on the equipment
 

FSTO

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Events will interfere with the best laid plans, such as the Falklands whee the ships had to come into restricted waters to perform their tasks.

Shame Leslie effectively squandered his power as an MP to be a meaningful change agent for DND and the CAF…
I think Leslie was not part of the "in" crowd at Liberal Caucus and therefore was shunted off to the side and told to be a trained seal.
 

Ostrozac

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I think Leslie was not part of the "in" crowd at Liberal Caucus and therefore was shunted off to the side and told to be a trained seal.
Well, with Leslie agreeing to testify in the Mark Norman case, and not on the side of his PM, if he wasn’t on the “outs” before that, he certainly was after. A charitable interpretation would be that he was unable to balance loyalty between a respected colleague and loyalty to his party. A more cynical interpretation was that he should have known better, and that he was incredibly naive to even think he could try to balance those two loyalties.
 

Kirkhill

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Well, with Leslie agreeing to testify in the Mark Norman case, and not on the side of his PM, if he wasn’t on the “outs” before that, he certainly was after. A charitable interpretation would be that he was unable to balance loyalty between a respected colleague and loyalty to his party. A more cynical interpretation was that he should have known better, and that he was incredibly naive to even think he could try to balance those two loyalties.

I wonder if the term "friendship" enters into the discussion.

"Balancing loyalties" feels kind of transactional.
 

daftandbarmy

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I wonder if the term "friendship" enters into the discussion.

"Balancing loyalties" feels kind of transactional.

It's lonely at the (almost) top:

Loneliness: The Executive Challenge No One Talks About​


As a leadership and culture coach, I’m often asked: what is the hardest part about being a CEO? Although as a CEO you get to shape a company in your image, hire people to work with you, and receive recognition for your accomplishments...

…It’s also incredibly lonely.

CEOs claim the biggest issue they face in their roles is not having anyone to confide in. Given the overwhelming responsibility and pressure to appear calm for employees, to consistently deliver results and to be where the proverbial buck stops, it’s no wonder CEOs have a tendency to isolate themselves.

And it’s a problem.

 

FJAG

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It's lonely at the (almost) top:

Loneliness: The Executive Challenge No One Talks About​


As a leadership and culture coach, I’m often asked: what is the hardest part about being a CEO? Although as a CEO you get to shape a company in your image, hire people to work with you, and receive recognition for your accomplishments...

…It’s also incredibly lonely.

CEOs claim the biggest issue they face in their roles is not having anyone to confide in. Given the overwhelming responsibility and pressure to appear calm for employees, to consistently deliver results and to be where the proverbial buck stops, it’s no wonder CEOs have a tendency to isolate themselves.

And it’s a problem.

They always have the Stonecutters' Lodge to go to:


😁
 
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